Optical Color Castle...

"Buffoon" <No-***@OfficeBuffoon.com> wrote in message news:rduvg.41238$***@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
Explain how this works then... where does the full colour come from?

http://www.officebuffoon.com/funny/castle.asp

Well, first of all, it works whichever bit of it you stare at. I tried
gazing at the grass, and when I brought the mouse over it was gloriously
green. What's happening is the same effect as when you gaze at a window with
a bright sky outside: when you close your eyes you see a negative image of
the bars of the window frame. This picture is a colour negative of the
'real' photo, so if you stare at it long enough you're burning an image into
your retina. As soon as you stop looking at the negative image, a positive
image appears. Superimpose that over a black & white photo and you've got
colour.

I tried staring at it some more, and then, instead of bringing the mouse
over the picture, I held up a sheet of white paper over it. The effect is
much fainter, but I could definitely see the blue sky and the green grass.
The colours are in your brain, not on the screen.

We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

ally

black-dog

2006-07-20 00:43:09 UTC

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript

http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

jaykay

2006-07-20 06:28:52 UTC

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm
--
black-dog
A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

Cor those prices look good, where is this market?
cheers
jk

black-dog

2006-07-20 08:43:47 UTC

Post by jaykay

Post by black-dog
Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

Cor those prices look good, where is this market?
cheers

Newcastle under Lyme, taken a couple of months ago.

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

Wm...

2006-07-20 10:56:50 UTC

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

I see a black and white pic when I do the mouse over (ditto with Toad's
castle). I know what is meant to happen, it just doesn't happen to me.
Perhaps there is a variation in retina retention and adjustment in
people? Maybe it varies on how alert one is? Have you just had a cup
of coffee or are you drunk? Have you just woken up or about to fall
asleep?

IIRC the retinal nerves are effectively an extension of the brain rather
than just passing messages to and from it along the nervous system like
most of the other senses, part of the reason why eyesight is so
important to human functioning [1]

I know this isn't very humorous but it is fascinating to me. It would
be fun if people tried Geoff's test out under different conditions and
reported back.

[1] with the exception of David Blunkett, of course [2]

[2] phew, I managed to squeeze a joke in

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

a l l y

2006-07-20 19:58:29 UTC

Post by Wm...
I see a black and white pic when I do the mouse over (ditto with Toad's
castle). I know what is meant to happen, it just doesn't happen to me.
Perhaps there is a variation in retina retention and adjustment in people?
Maybe it varies on how alert one is? Have you just had a cup of coffee or
are you drunk? Have you just woken up or about to fall asleep?
IIRC the retinal nerves are effectively an extension of the brain rather
than just passing messages to and from it along the nervous system like
most of the other senses, part of the reason why eyesight is so important
to human functioning [1]
I know this isn't very humorous but it is fascinating to me. It would be
fun if people tried Geoff's test out under different conditions and
reported back.

OK, last night I looked at the fruit pic stone cold sober: tonight I've had
a glass of wine, so I looked again. Interestingly, with the wine the colours
were more intense and the effect took longer to wear off. In fact, when I
glanced away and back again, there was still a little colour left. Ditto
with the castle - last night the effect was quite impressive but tonight the
pic's in technicolor! I think you need a glass of wine before you try again,
Wm....

ally

Wm...

2006-07-20 22:02:59 UTC

Eeek, my report is different. I am definitely over the drink and drive
limit at the time of writing. I see a moment of colour when I do the
mouse over and then I see black and white. I do know what I am meant to
be seeing, it is there for a fraction of a second now I am drunk, I
can't define how short the time period is, but it is a lot less than a
second. Less than a blink, in fact, I tried that as a measure.

Adelaide or John (aka BioB) can you think of a sensible reason for this
diversity?

I predict Adelaide may also see B+W almost immediately, but that is
instinct rather than sense.

I do not want to form a theory yet but I am guessing someone who sees
things quickly (seeing things quickly is ill defined) will not see the
colour superimposed (even if they know it is meant to be there).

Ally, if you are still interested in this, are you long sighted, short
sighted or normal sighted.

I am long sighted, which is of itself unusual. The point I am trying to
dig at is do short sighted people (there should be slightly more short
sighted people than normal) get the colour effects more?

It may be unimportant but I am wondering if perception and colour
matching work together. This is just a thought but it goes like this,
you can't see things clearly at a distance so your brain fills in the
gaps, in the examples given the colours. When you (someone who sees the
colours) get the other picture your brain catches up and fills in the
colours.

I am not (at the moment) suggesting people who see the colours are
stupid. I am suggesting it may be either an eyesight thing or something
else I haven't thought about. I'd be interested in other thoughts and
reports.

Hmmm, I didn't make a joke
I'll try next time.

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

a l l y

2006-07-21 08:32:03 UTC

Post by Wm...
Ally, if you are still interested in this, are you long sighted, short
sighted or normal sighted.

Er.. I only need glasses for reading. Does that make me long-sighted? My
distance vision is more or less perfect.

I got the feeling last night, after my single glass of wine, that the
alcohol made me more able to relax and concentrate better on a single point
in the image, which created a more intense effect afterwards. I'd love to be
able to try it with other drugs... Anyone out there fancy smoking a joint
and then trying it? Or would your admission to having done such a thing
produce a visit from the local constabulary?

Post by Wm...
I am long sighted, which is of itself unusual.

Is it?

ally

Wm...

2006-07-21 18:45:20 UTC

Post by Wm...
Ally, if you are still interested in this, are you long sighted, short
sighted or normal sighted.

Er.. I only need glasses for reading. Does that make me long-sighted? My
distance vision is more or less perfect.

Probably normal then (I am making a guess about your age, late 40's or
early 50's to preclude "just how old do you think I am" :) let us know
if I am very wrong).

Post by a l l y
I got the feeling last night, after my single glass of wine, that the
alcohol made me more able to relax and concentrate better on a single point
in the image, which created a more intense effect afterwards. I'd love to be
able to try it with other drugs... Anyone out there fancy smoking a joint
and then trying it? Or would your admission to having done such a thing
produce a visit from the local constabulary?

We are a fairly free bunch here, Ally. I don't think anyone would
misconstrue experimentation but at the same time we don't encourage
abuse. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any drugs in
the urh goody bag, our opiate is laughter.

Having said that it did occur to me that the first pic might be scary if
I had dropped a tab of acid.

Post by Wm...
I am long sighted, which is of itself unusual.

Is it?

Yes. Eyesight tends to degenerate in one direction or another over
time. Mine has been constant for 40 odd years.

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

nice.guy.nige

2006-07-20 20:11:38 UTC

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

But I just tried this with stylesheets turned off and nothing happened! ;-)

Cheers,
Nige

--
Nigel Moss http://www.nigenet.org.uk
Mail address will bounce. ***@DOG.nigenet.org.uk | Take the DOG. out!
"Your mother ate my dog!", "Not all of him!"

a l l y

2006-07-20 21:44:55 UTC

Post by nice.guy.nige

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

But I just tried this with stylesheets turned off and nothing happened! ;-)

On the other hand, it's a useful bit of code which I might just nick... er,
adapt... for something else...

ally

Wm...

2006-07-20 22:11:32 UTC

Post by nice.guy.nige

Post by a l l y
We could easily make our own with a bit of photoshop tweaking, couldn't we?

Yep. And without javascript
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.htm

But I just tried this with stylesheets turned off and nothing happened! ;-)

On the other hand, it's a useful bit of code which I might just nick... er,
adapt... for something else...

Ask Geoff nicely, he will probably say yes it is ok for you to use. If
not then the rules are clear. You'll have to write your own code that
is close but not the same. Or Something.

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

black-dog

2006-07-20 23:03:11 UTC

Post by Wm...

Post by a l l y
On the other hand, it's a useful bit of code which I might just nick... er,
adapt... for something else...

Ask Geoff nicely, he will probably say yes it is ok for you to use.

He'd be flattered.

Wm I think your problem may be not being able to keep your eyes steady.
the effect relies on the fact that staring at one colour desensitises
the retina to that colour. If you close your eyes you'll see a kind of
negative image. Now if you do that with a negative image obviously when
you close your eyes you'll see a positive image. When the image is
replaced with a black and white one, the positive retinal image is
superimposed on the black and white one and you see colour. The effect
relies on the retinal image and the black and white image being in
exactly the same place, move your eyes and it disappears.

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

Wm...

2006-07-21 00:33:45 UTC

Post by Wm...

Post by a l l y
On the other hand, it's a useful bit of code which I might just nick... er,
adapt... for something else...

Ask Geoff nicely, he will probably say yes it is ok for you to use.

He'd be flattered.

Post by black-dog
Wm I think your problem may be not being able to keep your eyes steady.

Possibly, Geoff, I am not trying to create a problem where there isn't
one and my instinct is to invert the problem, i.e. why am I not seeing
what everyone else is?

Post by black-dog
the effect relies on the fact

OK, lets look at those words, Geoff. "effect" "relies" "fact"

The bad word for me is "fact". "effect" and "relies" I am happy about.

I really do know what ought to happen, promise.

Post by black-dog
that staring at one colour desensitises
the retina to that colour.

Accepted, I am not disagreeing with "accepted" science, dear

I do not mean the dear to be patronising, it means I like you.

Post by black-dog
If you close your eyes you'll see a kind of
negative image.

I can do that with real stuff, i.e. not on a screen.

Post by black-dog
Now if you do that with a negative image obviously when
you close your eyes you'll see a positive image.

Why obviously, Geoff? I am saying it doesn't happen to me.

Post by black-dog
When the image is
replaced with a black and white one, the positive retinal image is
superimposed on the black and white one and you see colour. The effect
relies on the retinal image and the black and white image being in
exactly the same place, move your eyes and it disappears.

OK, am I a more advanced or more recidivist being because (presuming you
are correct) my eyes can't stay still long enough.

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick, I have won shooting
competitions and unless you have been in one you will not understand
everything having to be exactly the same in your view. Including the
wind, people think it is simple, you just point the gun thing. It
isn't. Spacial awareness is paramount.

I gently suggest people who see the colours would lose a shooting
contest. I am not sure about that until proven of course, all I do know
is that I see the black and white all but immediately. Faster than I
can think I noticed it anyway.

Perhaps the question is: has anyone else done an activity that involved
enormous eye concentration and does not get the colour effects?

Rifle shooting is obviously one, archery would be another perhaps.

Obviously not all my shooting was just for fun in competitions :(

I don't want to talk about the other shooting but I don't see why it
should affect Geoff's thing or the Toad's thing.

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

black-dog

2006-07-21 08:59:48 UTC

Post by Wm...
I gently suggest people who see the colours would lose a shooting
contest. I am not sure about that until proven of course, all I do know
is that I see the black and white all but immediately. Faster than I
can think I noticed it anyway.
Perhaps the question is: has anyone else done an activity that involved
enormous eye concentration and does not get the colour effects?

The man who buys the biscuits used to shoot targets with 22 rifles, has
shot video professionally and is a reasonable shot at clay pigeon.

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

Wm...

2006-07-21 18:32:26 UTC

The man who buys the biscuits used to shoot targets with 22 rifles, has
shot video professionally and is a reasonable shot at clay pigeon.

Being good at rifles and shotguns involves completely different skills.
I think Geoff probably knows that. I am above average at shotguns but
nothing to shout about. Rifles on the other hand I am very good at.

Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

black-dog

2006-07-22 01:11:22 UTC

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.

Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

black-dog

2006-07-22 01:26:27 UTC

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.
Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

Incidentally, the true colour image is here.

Loading Image...

--
black-dog

A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.

Wm...

2006-07-22 03:11:12 UTC

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.
Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

Incidentally, the true colour image is here.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.jpg

Another possibility is my brain turns off colour processing because the
colours are so obviously wrong in the first image and when I mouse over
and get the B+W my brain goes "ah, that makes more sense".

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

Wm...

2006-07-22 03:04:30 UTC

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.
Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

Incidentally, the true colour image is here.
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/test/fruit.jpg

I know what the colours are meant to be when I see the inverted image.

This is hard to explain, but I will try. Maybe it will bring me closer
to understanding what is happening in my head. When I see the inverted
image I think my brain is undoing the "wrong" colours" so when I mouse
over I get the "right colours" i.e. the B+W image almost immediately and
that isn't happening to other people.

I'd be interested if you have a test where I can't know what the correct
colours are, Geoff. Maybe my brain wouldn't be able to parse that fast
enough and I would be able to join the 12 second normal people :)

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

Wm...

2006-07-22 02:51:29 UTC

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.
Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

Scary. I am definitely getting the feeling I am unusual now. I can't
make it last a second even if I try. I know I presented some theories
but they are obviously bollocks now.

Last gasp, is there anyone else that has sub second retinal retention?
Or from my POV faster than average retinal processing?

--
Wm ...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days from date of posting

Adelaide

2006-07-22 14:21:05 UTC

"Wm..." wrote Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:51:29 +0100

Post by Wm...

Post by Wm...
Geoff, if you look at the fruit thing and then mouse over how long do
the colours last? Are we talking seconds? (it is a lot less than a
second for me).

Yes, seconds.
Burning the image on for thirty seconds results in a colour perception
of around 12 seconds, the same as Adelaide.

Scary. I am definitely getting the feeling I am unusual now. I can't
make it last a second even if I try. I know I presented some theories
but they are obviously bollocks now.
Last gasp, is there anyone else that has sub second retinal retention?
Or from my POV faster than average retinal processing?

I may not have been clear enough before, let me try again!

Wm..., I can reproduce your flash-then-gone colour response: if I
move my eyes as I move my mouse. And then the colour does not come
back (except a faint trace of blue in the sky), no matter how
intently I stare at the dot. I don't understand why it goes so fast
-- something about breaking up the pattern??? but I really do get a
full 12 seconds if I keep on the dot.

Perhaps your saccades are unusually long?

Adelaide

Wm...

2006-07-22 16:29:24 UTC